Thread: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

Originally Posted by TCWORLD
PLLs are largely analogue, not digital. You cannot build a PLL out of digital logic alone, which means you can't build one on an FPGA.
Thanks, TCWORLD. I thought so.

I imagine a solution would require interfacing through FPGA I/O to external circuit for analog elements - i think i've read about such circuits that take advantage of FPGA logic with an external circuit component to the function. This is the idea i have in mind.

For the sake of example, lets say i am able to connect an external circuit to Max10 I/O pins to create an 'inboard/outboard' PLL for the Max to access, thereby minimizing outside world and possibly lowering noise. I haven't had a lot of experience with FPGA but this seems like a good idea. Does this make sense? I'm pondering whether i could even build a fractional N function into this 'inboard/outboard' PLL...
Last edited by BillyZDSP; February 15th, 2018 at 12:27 PM.

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

I have a hard time imagining how you could use some simple analog off chip circuitry to raise the frequency of your clock from 50 Hz to 5MHz in order to use the PLL. I guess that you could have a succession of selective filters that would work on harmonics but I wouldn't call that solution simple, elegant, or low noise/jitter, if it can even work in the first place.
If you already have a solution with an external chip that works well maybe you should keep it.
It may be a stupid question but why do you need that in the first place? Couldn't you use a normal crystal oscillator and use logic to synchronize to the 50 Hz input instead? Do you really need that clock to be exactly 10^6 times the frequency of the input clock?

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

Originally Posted by Daixiwen
I have a hard time imagining how you could use some simple analog off chip circuitry to raise the frequency of your clock from 50 Hz to 5MHz in order to use the PLL. I guess that you could have a succession of selective filters that would work on harmonics but I wouldn't call that solution simple, elegant, or low noise/jitter, if it can even work in the first place.
If you already have a solution with an external chip that works well maybe you should keep it.
It may be a stupid question but why do you need that in the first place? Couldn't you use a normal crystal oscillator and use logic to synchronize to the 50 Hz input instead? Do you really need that clock to be exactly 10^6 times the frequency of the input clock?
Thanks, Daixiwen. I'm sure you're right about just using the chip solution i have. Creating a soft IP version of the chip for FPGA is not my first task. Just something that occurred to me.

Yes, i need to sync 10^6 for my application. I'm interested in your idea - use a normal crystal oscillator and use logic to synchronize. It sounds hopeful, but i'm not sure it will work for my application - can you elaborate or point me to a reference? I'm interested in all ideas. Thanks for your help.

I need locked at the 10^6 input, but absolute phase not necessary - for every single cycle at 50Hz. i need 50M evenly spaced cycles. Phase locked also acceptable.

Cheers,

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

If you use a normal oscillator you could for example count the number of clock cycles during one full period on the 50Hz signal. Then you can use software to compensate any timing measurement/synchronization you do, based on that clock cycles count.
But it really depends on your application and how accurate you need to be. If you really need those 10^6 cycles then I think your only solution is to use an external pll.

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

This sounds like a video application to me, genlocking to a 50Hz source. I've used a Cypress CS2100/2300 for this in the past.

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

Originally Posted by gj_leeson
This sounds like a video application to me, genlocking to a 50Hz source. I've used a Cypress CS2100/2300 for this in the past.
Yes, gj_leeson. I am using the 2300 version of that series. Great chip. I'm using it for master clock MCLK to codec 24bit 48KHz.

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Re: Fractional N PLL implimentation in IP possible on Cyclone V and max10?

Originally Posted by Daixiwen
If you use a normal oscillator you could for example count the number of clock cycles during one full period on the 50Hz signal. Then you can use software to compensate any timing measurement/synchronization you do, based on that clock cycles count.
But it really depends on your application and how accurate you need to be. If you really need those 10^6 cycles then I think your only solution is to use an external pll.
Thanks, Daixiwen. Is there a name for this type of circuit function?

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